HMCo #709s Joyant
Particulars
Later Name(s): Judy II, Joyant
Type: P-Boat
Designed by: NGH
Contract: 1911-1-31
Launch: 1911-5-16
Construction: Wood
LOA: 58' 5" (17.81m)
LWL: 35' 0" (10.67m)
Beam: 11' 4" (3.45m)
Draft: 7' 4" (2.24m)
Rig: Sloop
Sail Area: 1,526sq ft (141.8sq m)
Displ.: 33,728 lbs (15,299 kg)
Keel: yes
Ballast: Lead outside
Built for: Childs, William H.
Amount: $8,800.00
Note(s) in HMCo Construction Record: P. class
Current owner: Private Owner, Islesboro, ME (last reported 2021 at age 110)
See also:
Note: Particulars are primarily but not exclusively from the HMCo Construction Record. Supplementary information not from the Construction Record appears elsewhere in this record with a complete citation.
Model
Model location: H.M.M. Model Room South Wall Center
Vessels from this model:
1 built, modeled by NGH
Original text on model:
"No. 709 scale 3/4 Feb. 1911 JOYANT" (Source: Original handwritten annotation on model. Undated.)
Model Description:
"35' lwl Joyant, P-class sloop of 1911." (Source: Bray, Maynard. 2004.)
Note: Vessels that appear in the records as not built, a cancelled contract, a study model, or as a model sailboat are listed but not counted in the list of vessels built from a model.
Offsets
Offset booklet number(s): HH.4.178
Offset booklet contents:
#709 [35' w.l. P-class sloop Joyant].
Offset Booklet(s) in Haffenreffer-Herreshoff Collection. Francis Russell Hart Nautical Collections, MIT Museum, Cambridge, Mass. (Restricted access --- see curator.)
Drawings
List of drawings:
Drawings believed to have been first drawn for, or being first referenced to
HMCo #709s Joyant are listed in bold.
Click on Dwg number for preview, on HH number to see at M.I.T. Museum.
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Dwg 064-005 (HH.5.04481): 46' W.L. Cutter, Details of Tiller and Hangings (1891-03-19)
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Dwg 077-059 (HH.5.05662); Metal Fittings for No. 440 (1894-02-01)
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Dwg 078-011 (HH.5.05729): Boom Hanging for No. 450 and 451, 481, 510 (1895-02-12)
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Dwg 083-056 (HH.5.06412): 24" x 24" Hatch and Cover, Str. 194 (1897-03-19)
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Dwg 065-034 (HH.5.04630): Tiller Socket # 487 (1897-11-09)
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Dwg 079-022 (HH.5.05833): Thimbles for Wire Luff Ropes on Jibs and Topsails (1900-01 ?)
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Dwg 084-022 (HH.5.06470); Skylight for # 560 Class (1901-10-04)
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Dwg 092-054 (HH.5.07523); Side Step for 30' W.L. Class (1901-10-09)
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Dwg 070-050 (HH.5.05050): Quarter Chock (1903-04-02)
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Dwg 064-066 (HH.5.04542): Detail of Rudder and Stock (1904-02-01)
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Dwg 110-031 (HH.5.08996): Turnbuckles # 624, 625 (1904-12-05)
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Dwg 049-056 (HH.5.03732); Bilge Pump for # 626 Class (1904-12-08)
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Dwg 110-032 (HH.5.08997); Turnbuckles for # 626 Class (1904-12-12)
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Dwg 112-069 (HH.5.09363); Mainsheet Capstan for 1 1/2" and 1 3/4" Rope Used on 30 Footers N.Y.Y. Club (1905-12-05)
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Dwg 084-046 [141-050] (HH.5.06497): Mahogany Hatch (Transferred From 141-50) (1907-01-12)
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Dwg 110-092 (HH.5.09057): Spreaders for Small Sail Boats (1907-04-27)
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Dwg 109-005 (HH.5.08776); Spinnaker Boom End for Small Racing Yachts (1910-10-18)
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Dwg 130-116 (HH.5.10424); Sails > # 709 Joyant (1911-02 ?)
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Dwg 081-092 (HH.5.06183): Spars for No. 709 (1911-03-01)
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Dwg 001-052 (HH.5.00473); Construction Dwg > Racing and Cruising Yacht Class P L.I.S.Y.R.A. (1911-03-04)
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Dwg 128-024 (HH.5.10102): Sails > Sails for No. 709 (1911-03-05)
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Dwg 109-031 (HH.5.08802): Peak and Spinnaker Halyard Eyes for # 708 and 709 (1911-03-08)
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Dwg 109-032 (HH.5.08803): Forgings Chainplate Traveller Staples Etc (1911-03-09)
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Dwg 109-033 (HH.5.08804): Mast Truss Strut for # 708 and 709 (1911-03-15)
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Dwg 111-071 (HH.5.09262): Bulkheads for # 708 and 709 (1911-03-22)
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Dwg 109-035 (HH.5.08805): Boom Thimble for # 708 and 709 (1911-04-21)
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Dwg 109-037 (HH.5.08807): Forestay Fastening for 709 (1911-04-30)
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Dwg 109-038 (HH.5.08808): Sheaves for Jib Tack and Halyards # 709 (1911-05-02)
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Dwg 025-080 (HH.5.01832): Construction List (1911-06-31)
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Dwg 143-039 (HH.5.11905): Racing and Cruising Yacht Class P, L.I.S.Y.R.A. (1913-07-17)
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Dwg 080-095 (HH.5.06009): New Mast for Joyant # 709 (1927-02-19)
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Dwg 130-155 (HH.5.10467): Sails > Leg O'Mutton Rig for "Joyant" # 709 (1927-02-21)
Note: The Haffenreffer-Herreshoff Collection is copyrighted by the Francis Russell Hart Nautical Collections of the MIT Museum in Cambridge, Mass. Permission to incorporate information from it in the Herreshoff Catalogue Raisonné is gratefully acknowledged. The use of this information is permitted solely for research purposes. No part of it is to be published in any form whatsoever.
Documents
Nathanael G. Herreshoff
"[1911-01-27] Fri 27: ... A. N. Hanan & Mr. Hart here talking about a new P class boat [#709s Joyant].
[1911-02-27] Mon 27: Have call from Mr. & Mrs. Hart to see model of #709 [Joyant].
[1911-03-17] Fri 17: ... Strong SW wind. No 709 [Joyant] set up.
[1911-05-16] Tue 16: ... Launched #709 Joyant in forenoon.
[1911-05-18] Thu 18: Mr. Hallock here and measured Elena [#706s] and Joyant [#709s]. Tried Joyant in light breeze.
[1911-05-20] Sat 20: Elena [#706s] sailed in forenoon and Joyant [#709s] in afternoon in moderate breeze. ...
[1911-05-22] Mon 22: P-class boat Joyant (#709) sailed at noon. ..." (Source: Herreshoff, Nathanael G. Diary, 1911. Manuscript (excerpts). Diary access courtesy of Halsey C. Herreshoff.)
"No. 709.
Feb[ruary] 1911.
Frame spaces 14".
Timbers 1 13/16" sq[uare] at head, increasing 1/16" per foot.
Planking 1 1/4".
Deck 1 1/4". Sheer height given is to upper side of deck.
Keel plank 3 3/4" or 3 5/8" with 1" below rabbate in middle part.
...
Note. Run lines on loft floor to correct half breadths & rabbate on # s 0 - 1 & 2 frames." (Source: Herreshoff, N.G. [Penciled note in Offset Booklet HH.4.178.] February 1911. Haffenreffer-Herreshoff Collection, MIT Museum, Cambridge, MA.)
L. Francis Herreshoff
"In about 1912 there was great interest in the P class and my father designed Joyant, Figure 263A. She was nicknamed the Giant. Joyant was of large displacement for her waterline length, so could be large all over as the cube root of displacement was the divisor in the rule. It is my opinion that the Joyant was not an all around fast boat, although large, but she was well sailed and so was the principal winner in her class. The success of Joyant made the Wise Men of the Club panicky, and as some of them had actually been connected with the yachts that Joyant had beaten, they made rules limiting the use of displacement as a divisor in the rule. This clause in the rule, adopted in 1913, was written up by the designer Gardner, who had designed some of the yachts beaten, and it read as follows: 'There shall be no limit on the actual displacement of yachts, but the cube root of the displacement, D as used in the measurement formula, shall never exceed twenty per cent of the L.W.L. plus 0.50.'
At the same time there were rules written to clarify measuring length (L in the measurement), for Joyant and some others had been built with hollow lines at both bow and stern in the region where the so called quarter beam length measurement was taken, but you can see by her photo these were fair easy sweeps. It is my opinion that the long bow and stern of Joyant made possible by hollow ends were of no benefit to her because her excessive displacement for her L.W.L. had already limited her speed, and although I have no strong feeling about either of these additions to the rule, still I cannot help looking on them as little other than the reaction of spite by those who had been beaten." (Source: Herreshoff, L. Francis. The Common Sense of Yacht Design. Vol. II. New York, 1948, p. 48-49.)
"Among the smaller yachts of this time that Captain Nat designed were the 'P' boats, 'Corinthian' built for the Sewanhaka Corinthian Yacht Club; and the 'Joyant,' built for W. H. Childs of the famous Childs's restaurants. At the time Gardner had designed several handsome 'P' boats that were more or less copies of the earlier 'P's that Captain Nat had designed, and there was considerable rivalry in the class for some important cups were offered for their competition. Captain Nat designed 'Joyant' much larger than other 'P's of that time: she was about thirty-five feet six inches W.L. while the Gardner 'P's were about thirty-two feet five inches. 'Joyant' had around two hundred more square feet sail area than the others, for Gardner never seemed to work out boats that rated low under the Universal Rule, and this was later to be the principal trouble with 'Vanitie.' However, 'Joyant' eventually did so well that she nearly broke up the 'P' class so Gardner, whose boats had been beaten, brought power to bear to have the measurement rules so changed that the displacement and sail area under the Universal Rule were kept within certain proportions of the waterline length. 'Joyant' also had some reverse curves in her forward and after overhangs, so at the same time rules were made which prevented this peculiarity from reducing the rating. 'Joyant' is notable for having caused the present limits to proportions now in the rule." (Source: Herreshoff, L. Francis. The Wizard of Bristol. The Life and Achievements of Nathanael Greene Herreshoff, together with An Account of Some of the Yachts he Designed. New York, 1953, p. 280-281.)
"The 'P' class of thirty-one-foot rating was of much importance between 1907 and World War I. There were several reasons for this: first they were used for several years in the international races between Canada and the United States. The Manhasset Bay Challenge Cup and other important trophies were raced for in this class which made intersectional competition, particularly between Boston and New York, with the honors to the designers being very evenly distributed between Gardner, Owen and Herreshoff. Perhaps the other reasons for the 'P's' popularity were that they were rather good looking, and had some cabin accommodations. ... the 'P' boat Joyant ... was particularly successful in this class. She caused considerable controversy because she was larger than her competitors and was sometimes called The Giant. Under the Universal Rule at that time if a yacht were given large displacement she could have slightly more length and sail area, so in Joyant Mr. Hereshoff took a chance with a very potbellied boat which, although she could not under any circumstance be driven very fast, still seemed to do very well in the light, average winds of Long Island Sound. The photograph shows what a quarter wave Joyant made when up to a speed of over seven knots. After her success the New York Yacht Club added a clause to the rule limiting the credit that a yacht would get from large displacement. The clause reads:
'There shall be no limit on the actual displacement of yachts, but the cube root of the displacement, D, as used in the measurement formula, shall never exceed 20% of the L.W.L. plus 0.50.'
Since that time all Universal Rule yachts have been designed right up to that proportion. The same year the builders of Joyant turned out a smaller 'P' boat named Corinthian that was well sailed by Sherman Hoyt, and, although Joyant beat her slightly, today under the rule, with the credit from displacement limited, Corinthian would probably beat Joyant. Joyant was owned by William H. Childs who had a chain of famous restaurants in New York City and who was a great lover of the smaller racing sailboats, having owned Joy, More Joy, and Joyous besides Joyant of which we have spoken." (Source: Herreshoff, L. Francis. An Introduction to Yachting. New York, 1963, p. 168-169.)
Other Contemporary Text Source(s)
"BRISTOL, R.I., May 7 [1911]. --- Interest in the series of races to be sailed this Summer against the Cara Mia for the Manhasset Bay Challenge Cup at the head of Long Island Sound has increased since the launching of the first of the two boats of the P class at the Herreshoffs' yard Saturday, and with three other new ones in the racing from Marblehead, the sport ought to be worth witnessing.
Of the two Herreshof-designed class P boats, considerable was learned here to-day. They are not alike as to dimensions, as at first supposed, one being larger than the other, the larger craft being, it is learned, in the nature of an experiment by Nat Herreshoff. The smaller of the pair, the Corinthian [#708s], was launched Saturday afternoon, and is to be sailed by C. Sherman Hoyt, a member of the syndicate of owners representing the Seawanhaka Yacht Club. ...
Joyant is the name of the larger of the pair, and she is yet to be launched, though one week longer will see her finished and in the water. Joyant is to be the property of Commodore W. H. Childs of the Indian Harbor Yacht Club. Her amateur Captain will be Addison G. Hanan, who steered the Seneca [#670s] to victory a few years ago in the defense of the Rochester Cup. It is a coincidence that each Herreshoff boat has Deer Isle, Me., professional skippers, Philip Haskell in the Corinthian and G. D. Hendricks in the Joyant. ..." (Source: Anon. "Yacht Corinthian Launched. First of the Two Class P Boats in the Water." New York Times, May 8, 1911, p. 9.)
"... The 31-raters built at Herreshoffs for racing on the Sound are ready for delivery and will leave Bristol next week. The boat for the syndicate of the Seawanhaka-Corinthian Y. C. has been named Corinthian [#708s], and will be sailed by Sherman Hoyt, Clinton H. Crane and Johnston de Forest, three of the best sailors of small boats in these waters. Corinthian is 55 feet over all, 33 feet 2 inches on the waterline, 8 feet 4 inches beam and 6 feet 2 inches draft. She spreads 1,400 square feet of canvas. This boat was launched last week and has been tried.
The second boat is Joyant, built for Commodore William H. Childs, of the Indian Harbor Y. C. She is somewhat of an experiment in model and differs much from Corinthian. Her dimensions are 59 feet over all, 34 feet 5 inches on the waterline, 9 feet 10 inches beam and 7 feet draft. She spreads about 1.500 square feet of sail. Addison G. Hanan is to sail this yacht in her more important races.
Both of the boats are painted white above the waterlines, are exceptional looking craft as to elements of speed and power, have slender ends, finely drawn sheers and the larger of the pair will swing at the least 100 square feet more canvas than Corinthian. The freeboards are not of a character to raise any adverse comment, for Designer Herreshoff struck a happy medium in giving the body sufficient height above the waterline to compare easily with the length of hull and height of spar. The pole masts are lofty, making way for a tall hoist, while the hatch coamings on the deck are stamped down to the point of giving assurance that all comforts for the crew on deck are sacrificed to the object of carrying canvas. ..." (Source: Anon. "Some News and a Little Gossip." Forest & Stream, May 13, 1911, p. 743.)
"BRISTOL, R I, May 16 [1911] --- The second of the Herreshoff designed P class boats built to sail for the Manhasset bay challenge cup at Oyster bay, the Joyant, owned by Commodore William H. Child of the Indian Harbor yacht club, was launched here at 11 o'clock today.
The Joyant is considerably larger in length over all, beam and waterline than the Corinthian [#708s], built for the Seawanhaka-Corinthian syndicate, although of similar model. The new craft is able looking, has a full midship section, carried out well forward and aft, and a tall rig.
The Joyant will be be sailed by Addison G Hanan of New York. The boat is due to leave here for Oyster bay on May 20. She is a sloop-rigged keel boat, 59 feet over all, 14 feet waterline, 3 feet 10 inches beam and 7 feet draft." (Source: Anon. "Joyant Put Overboard. Commodore Child's New P Class Racer Launched at Bristol ... Manhasset Bay Cup Her Target." Boston Globe, May 17, 1911, p. 6.)
"BRISTOL, R. I. May 16 [1911]. --- The racing yacht Joyant, built for Commodore W. H. Childs of the Indian Harbor Yacht Club of New York, was launched from the Herreschoff [sic] works here to-day. The boat is intended to represent the Indian Harbor Yacht Club in the series of six races to be sailed at Oyster Bay this Summer for the Manhasset Bay challenge cup, now held by the Cara-Mia of the American Yacht Club, and will be sailed by Addison G. Hanan, son of John H. Hanan of New York.
The Joyant is a sloop-rigged keel boat 59 feet over all, 34 feet water line, 9 feet 10 inches beam, and a draught of 7 feet." (Source: Anon. "Childs' Joyant Launched. A. G. Hanan Will Sail Craft for Manhasset Bay Cup." New York Times, May 17, 1911, p. 8.)
"[License issued to vessel under 20 tons. Pos. 131:]
Joyant, sloop yacht, of Bristol.
Built at Bristol, 1911.
10 tons; 48 ft. x 11.5 ft. x 7.2 ft. [Register length x breadth x depth.]
One deck, one mast, over-hanging head [bow].
Lic[ensed] ([as] yacht) May 16, 1911. Owner: Herreshoff Manufacturing Company of Bristol. Master: N. G. Herreshoff.
Surrendered [license] June 28, 1911 at New York. ([Record at:] C[ustom] H[ouse, Providence])." (Source: Survey of Federal Archives, Work Projects Administration. Ships Documents of Rhode Island. Bristol. Ship Registers and Enrollments of the Port of Bristol - Warren Rhode Island, 1941, s.v. Joyant.)
"... Joyant, the 31-rater for Commodore William II. Childs, of the Indian Harbor Y. C. will be ready next week. ..." (Source: Anon. "Some News and a Little Gossip." Forest & Stream, May 20, 1911, p. 14.)
"By splitting tacks and holding to the Connecticut shore while her rivals beat up the Sound and toward the Long Island shore the sloop yacht Timandra, owned and sailed by Mr. John B. Fallon, of the Eastern Yacht Club, won the third and last race in the series for the Manhasset Bay Challenge Cup. The race was to windward and return, and was sailed from off Great Captain's Island.
The Joyant, belonging to Commodore William H. Childs, of the Indian Harbor Yacht Crab, finished second, 33 seconds astern of the Timandra and the Corinthian [#708s] was third. ...
On account of the protests filed against the Joyant [#709s], the Corinthian [#708s], the Cara Mia [#687s], the three Herreshoff boats, and the Windward, a Gardner planned craft, the winner of the match will not be known until the protested yachts shall have been remeasured by Professor Hallock, the official measurer. The original protest was filed by the owners of the Timandra, the Amoret and the Sayonara, three Boston representatives, against the Joyant on the ground that she embodies in her form radical curves at both the forward and after point of her load waterline.
Badly Muddled Match.
The committee in charge, composed of Charles Lane Poor, of the American Yacht Club; Aemilius Jarvis, representing the Seawanhaka-Corinthian Yacht Club, and James D. Sparkman, of the New York Yacht Club, sustained the protest and ruled Joyant out, but when Commore Child protested the Cara Mia, the Corinthian and the Windward on the same grounds, the committee ordered the match sailed subject to Professor Hallock' s remeasurement. If the Joyant is barred the cup will go to the Corinthian, and if a similar ruling is made against her, the Cara Mia will take the trophy, but in the event that the latter is declared ineligible then the trophy will be awarded to the Sayonara, owned by Vernon F. West of the Portland Yacht Club.
The situation as respecting the final winner of the match is so badly muddled, that it probably will be three weeks before an award is made, because the protested yachts will have to be hauled out and remeasured. The protests have spoiled what otherwise would have been an interesting series of races, but as the matter now stands the match has resolved itself into a controversy, which, together with the light airs during the first and second races, probably will result in general dissatisfaction.
Commodore Childs requested the comittee to refer the whole question to the Executive Committee of the Yacht Racing Assocation of Long Island Sound, the rules of which governed the match. Mr. Childs said the committee declined to comply with his request.
Capt. 'Nat' Herreshoff There.
Captain N. G. Herreshoff witnessed the race from on board his steam yacht, the Roamer [#215p]. He brought down with him from Bristol drawings and figures, which he submitted to Professor Hallock to show that the Joy and the Cara Mia and the Corinthian should not be eliminated for violating the rules. ..." (Source: Anon. "The Timandra Wins a Manhasset Race. Takes Last Contest of Series, but Cup Goes to The Joyant, Subject to Her Remeasurement." New York Herald, July 13, 1911, p. 12.)
"[Detailed account of the races for the Manhasset Challenge Cup and the controversy surrounding its eventual winner Joyant." (Source: Anon. "Manhasset Bay Challenge Cup." Forest and Stream, July 22, 1911, p. 142-144.)
"The racing sloop Joyant, the Class P thirty-one rater, has been sold by Commodore William P. Childs of the Indian Harbor Yacht Club to ex-Commodore H. Earle Kimball of the Rhode Island Yacht Club, and she will hail from Providence in the Summer. Before the building of Addison G. Hanan's Josephine last year, Joyant was the champion of the Class P boats. During the seasons of 1911 and 1912 she was looked upon as the best of her class, defeating all comers in every open regatta of the big Sound clubs." (Source: Anon. "Racing-Sloop Yacht Joyant Sold." New York Times, February 18, 1914, p. ?)
"H. Earle Kimball of this city [Providence] will not sail his class P sloop Joyant in the Corinthian midsummer series after all. This is owing to some difficulties concerning her measurements. In order to make the craft conform to the class P regulations the yacht's speed would be lessened to such an extent that she would not be in the class with the other boats of her type." (Source: Anon. "Kimball Will Not Sail Sloop Joyant." Providence Evening News, August 1, 1914, p. 4.)
"Another chapter has been added to that which promises to be one of the most interesting contests in the annals of yachting. The class P sloop Joyant, designed and built for W. H. Childs, of the Indian Harbor Yacht Club, by the Herreshoffs several years ago, has been sold by H. Earle Kimball, of Providence, R. I., to Clifford B. Mallory, of the Indian Harbor Yacht Club, and will race against the new class P sloop designed by Addison O. Hanan and now being built at Wood & MeClure's, City Island. The Joyant will be altered during the winter by John G. Alden, who effected the sale.
This live interest in Class P sloops indicates the keenness that will characterize the contests for the Manhasset Bay Challenge Trophy this summer and afford the most interesting of intercity yacht racing. " (Source: Anon. "The Joyant to Return to Sound. Herreshoff Class P Sloop Bought by Clifford B. Mallory to Race Against New Hanan Creation." New York Herald, January 17, 1916, p. 13.)
"The success of the 31 rater Josephine last summer in bringing back to the Indian Harbor Yacht Club the Manhasset Challenge cup has started a boom in the class which will make it second only to the new 40 footers being built by Herreshoff for members of the New York Yacht Club. The Manhasset Challenge cup is to be sailed for on the Sound, probably during the first week in September. ...
The defender of the cup, designed by Addison G. Hanan, is being built now by Woods at City Island. This yacht is for Commodore William H. Childs and Addison G. Hanan, and it will be sailed by Mr. Hanan. ...
Cifford D. Mallory of the Indian Harbor Yacht Club has purchased the Joyant, and that yacht, which was originally built by Herreshoff for Commodore William H. Childs for Manhasset cup races, will come back to the Sound. It is the intention of Vice-Commodore Mallory to use the Joyant as a trial boat for the new Josephine. The Joyant is fast under certain conditions of weather.
In a light wind and smooth sea she ghosts along, and in a rough sea when the wind is strong enough to put her over on her ear she is a wonder, but in a choppy sea with a light wind she is not at her best. She will be a fine boat for use to help tune up the defender. ..." (Source: Anon. "Interest Revived In P Class Yachts. Victory of Josephine at Chicago Responsible for Their Popularity. Big Fleet Will Race." New York Sun, January 23, 1916, p. 15.)
"... The 31-rater Joyant recently purchased by Commodore William H. Childs, is to be raced this Summer by Clifford D. Mallory. The sloop, which is to have a new sail plan designed by John G. Alden, will be used as a trial boat for the new Hanan designed 31-rater which is to defend the Manhasset Bay Challenge Cup. ..." (Source: Anon. "Notes From The Week's Log." Boston Globe, April 16, 1916, p. 166.)
"... The Class P sloop Joyant [#709s] has been sold by W. H. Hackett to W. K. McKarg [McKary as per NYT] of Saginaw, Mich., who will race the yacht on the Lakes. Mr. Hackett has taken in part payment the Bar Harbor 31 footer Senora [#597s ex-Ben], built by Herreshoff. ..." (Source: De Casanova, Louis. "Harry Maxwell's Private Ensign to Be Seen on a Racing Yacht this Summer." Brooklyn Daily Eagle, April 19, 1922, p. A3.)
"... The [Buffalo Yacht] club's fleet will be augmented by many new yachts this season. ... One of the-finest additions to the sailing fleet is the Joyant, the largest and fleetest sloop of the 'P' class yet constructed. She is fifty-eight feet over all, thirty-six feet on the water line, eleven feet beam and spreads 1,560 feet of canvas. The Joyant was designed and built by Herreshoff. She is now on her way up from New York and is expected to arrive this week. She was bought by former Commodore Edward N. Smith. ..." (Source: Anon. "Many New, Fast And Costly Additions To Yacht Club Fleet; Formal Opening On May 27." Buffalo Courier, May 14, 1922, p. 88.)
"Chicago, July 26 (AP) --- Joyant, a class P sloop, won the annual Chicago to Mackinac yacht race early today. The start was made at 4 p. m., central daylight time, last Saturday, and the Joyant anchored at Mackinac at 1:07:45. a. m.
The announcement of the winner was made by a local newspaper from the race committee of the Chicago Yacht club which sponsors the annual 331 mile cruise, the longest fresh water race in the world. The Joyant is owned by Irving J. Bissell of Grand Rapids, Mich. [Joyant finished third on corrected time.]" (Source: Anon. "Joyant Wins Chicago To Mackinac Races." Albany Evening News, July 26, 1927, p. 9.)
"Sailing yacht Joyant finally makes Grand Haven Harbor after being lost for forty-eight hours on storm-swept Lake Michigan. " (Source: Anon. "News From Other Cities. Chicago." New York Evening Post, August 12, 1930, p. 24.)
"No. UP100 --- Aux. 'P' class sloop, 58' x 11/ 6'' x 7' 6''. Built by Herreshoff 1911. Completely overhauled 1930. New Universal motor. Spars and rigging in excellent shape. Sleeps eight comfortably. Completely found. Fast and able. PAUL H. BLAIR & CO., 664 N. Michigan Avenue, Chicago, Illinois. [Though not identified by name, text and accompanying photo clearly describe #709s Joyant.]" (Source: Anon. "For Sale." Yachting, May 1931, p. 38.)
Other Modern Text Source(s)
"... The displacement limitation [in the Universal Rule] resulted from a sort of fear or hysteria brought on by the supposed success in 1912 of the 31-rater Joyant. True, in light airs and mirror smooth water conditions, Joyant with her V-shaped midsection and correspondingly large sail spread proved very fast, but her hard- lined form proved a positive disadvantage in breezes above moderate velocity. Joyant never did or could win a season's championship sailing in all kinds of weather against her easier-lined competitors. ..." (Source: Owen, George. "Discussion." In: Stephens, W. P. "Yacht Measurement. Origin and Development." Society of Naval Architects and Marine Engineers, Transactions, Vol. 43, 1935, p. 34)
"[Joyant, owned by C. N. Granville, placed third of four entries in the Universal Division, Class A, in the 1943 Chicago - Mackinac Race.]" (Souce: Anon. [Title?] Rudder, 1943, vol. 60, [p. 125?].)
"FOR SALE --- 58' Auxiliary 'P' Sloop, designed and built by Herreshoff. Double planked, bronze fastened and strapped. Lead keel, bronze capstan, winches and deck hardware. Sleeps five in owner's party; crew quarters for two forward. Large galley and toilet. 95 h.p. Scripps V-8 motor with reduction gear and Startex. Speed 8 m.p.h.
George H. Buckley Yacht Broker
664 N. Michigan Ave., Chicago." (Source: Buckley, George H. "For Sale." Yachting, September 1944, p. ?.)
"... The 'P' boat Joyant, owned by Charles Granville, [is] also on [her] way south. ... the owner's intentions as to Joyant are not known. Rumors of others making the trek south are thick. How do they do it?" (Source: Wood, Harold F. "Lake Michigan Breezes." Yachting, December 1945, p. 156.)
"The Class P sloop Joyant, after many years of racing on Lake Michigan, is again back on salt water. James Craig, of Chicago, brought her down the Mississippi in November and later accompanied the racing fleet from St. Petersburg to Habana and now is taking her north." (Souce: Anon. [Title?] Yachting, 1946, vol. 80, [p. 162?].)
"The Manhasset Bay Challenge Cup
Along about 1909, and for many years thereafter, competition for the Manhasset Bay Challenge Cup proved to be one of the chief, and often most controversial, racing features of those years on Long Island Sound. Contestants were of the 31-foot rating or P class, usually about equally divided between entries representing individual Sound and Massachusetts Bay yacht clubs. ...
I signed the contract for the second proposal and Corinthian [#708s] was the result. Soon afterward the Indian Harbor Yacht Club fell for the third design and placed the order for Joyant [#709s].
These two proved distinctly superior to existing boats of the P class on the Sound, and later to those of the Boston contingent, except for their protested measurement and extraordinary disqualification in the Manhasset series, by the divided decision of the special board of judges for that match. ...
The great event, the Manhasset Cup series, soon arrived. The measurements of Joyant and Corinthian were questioned and protests lodged against us on measurement grounds. In the series Joyant won on points, with Corinthian second and Cara Mia [#687s] third.
... it was claimed that our quarter-beam lengths should be increased by bridging what some deemed unfair convex curvatures in the buttock and water-lines of our above water forms. The designer of both boats had taken advantage of the possibility to increase their size and length by offsetting this by increased displacement. ...
Finally, months after the series, Charles Lane Poor, Aemilius Jarvis, and James D. Sparkman, the judges, rendered their verdicts. The first two disqualified Joyant and Corinthian, awarded the cup to Cara Mia, representing the American Yacht Club, while Jim Sparkman filed a violently dissenting minority report. The whole affair left a nasty taste in the mouths of many of us who had the best interests of class yacht racing at heart, but had no effect on the award of other prizes won that year by the two discredited boats, nor as to their legal participation in races for their class in future years. ... [According to the Rudder, July 1916, p. 318, James D. Sparkman's views were subsequently sustained by the Executive Committee of the Yacht Racing Association of Long Island Sound.]" (Source: Hoyt, Sherman. Sherman Hoyt's Memoirs. New York, 1950, p. 69-74.)
"The April 2001 issue of Latitude 38, California's inimitable sailing magazine, reports that Jeff [Rutherford's] latest project, a 58' Herreshoff P-Boat, was trucked across the country from Cape Cod for restoration. The boat, JOYANT, had sat out of the water for 22 years when Jeff's client decided, despite Jeff's dire assessment of the boat's condition, to go ahead with the restoration. I spoke with Jeff in mid May, and he reports that the project is in high gear --- the hull replanked and framed --- and will be sailing soon." (Murphy, Matthew P. "More Proof of the Renaissance." Wooden Boat #161, July / August 2001, p. 5.)
Archival Documents
"N/A"
"N/A"
"[Item Description:] penciled table titled 'L1 by formula ...' and listing data for #706s ELENA, #657s IROLITA [ex-QUEEN], #698s VAGRANT I, #532s RAINBOW, #663s ISTALENA, #666s AVENGER, #685s ADVENTURESS, #703s FLYING CLOUD, #709s JOYANT and #708s CORINTHIAN, #687s CARA-MIA [ex-NAULAKHA] and NY30s" (Source: Herreshoff, N.G. (creator). Table. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Item MR_67730. Measuring and Measurement Rules (Box 1), Folder B1F01, formerly MRDE15. No date (1911 to 1915).)
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"[Item Description:] Penciled table titled 'P Class' with data for OA, WL, QBL, B, d, D, S, S/WS for #670s SENECA, #687s NAULAKHA, #708s CORINTHIAN and four versions of an unnamed design --- probably #709s JOYANT. Undated (JOYANT was designed in early 1911.)" (Source: Herreshoff, N.G. (creator). Penciled Table. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Item MRDE03_01820. Folder [no #]. No date (early 1911 ?).)
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"[Item Description:] Penciled pantograph hull sections, scantlings and displacement curve titled '5[th] trial. #709 [JOYANT]. Feb 10 [19]11/ w.l. 35ft. q.b.l. 33ft 9 3/4'. With calculations showing sail area as 1555sqft." (Source: Herreshoff, N.G. (creator). Pantograph Hull Sections. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Item MRDE04_01130. Folder [no #]. 1911-02-10.)
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"[Item Description:] Penciled pantograph hull sections and displacement curve titled 'JOYANT. No. 709 [#709s]. From finished model. Feb 14, 1911. Scale 3/4. Frame spaces 14in. q.b.l. 33ft 9in. w.l. 35ft'. With calculations showing total sail area as 1770sqft, wetted surface as 413sqft. Also calculations for waterline '6in deep', '3in deep' and '3in light'." (Source: Herreshoff, N.G. (creator). Pantograph Hull Sections. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Item MRDE04_01120. Folder [no #]. 1911-02-14.)
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"[Item Description:] Penciled pantograph lead sections titled 'No. 709 [#709s JOYANT] Lead. Scale 1/8 size. Feb[ruary] 20, 1911'. With calculations and note 'Required 20250lbs with c.g. at .5480 of w.l. w.l. 35.0ft. Frame spaces 14in...' and concluding with calculations and note 'Result. ... 20180lbs with c.g. at .550 of wl'." (Source: Herreshoff, N.G. (creator). Pantograph Lead Sections. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Item MRDE04_08410. Folder [no #]. 1911-02-20.)
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"[Item Description:] HMCo Plan HH.5.00473 (001-052). Blueprint construction plan with plan view, sections and inboard profile titled 'JOYANT [#709s]. Racing & Cruising Class Yacht. Class P. L.I.S.Y.R.A.'. With list of scantlings." (Source: Herreshoff Manufacturing Co. (creator). Blueprint. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Acc. 2004.0001.0030. WRDT04, Folder O.S. 1, formerly MRDE08. 1911-03-04.)
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"[Item Description:] Penciled pantograph hull sections titled 'No 709 [#709s] JOYANT, measured to w.l. of 35.3 as measured by Mr. Hallock, NYYC, May 18, 1911. Vessel is deep in water as also be the stern[?]. Mr. Hallock measures as …'. With measured dimensions, calculations for Q.B.L. (35.86), rating (30.92), Draft (7.417), and displacement (542cuft [=34,688lbs])." (Source: Herreshoff, N.G. (creator). Pantograph Hull Sections. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Item MRDE04_01110. Folder [no #]. After 1911-05-18.)
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"[Item Description:] #663s ISTALENA for Pynchon, #664s WINSOME for Lippit and #667s AURORA, owners are beginning to discuss new class of big boats if existing ones can be sold, new ones need to be fast, able to be handled and cost not more in operation than current ones, do away with current breaking of topmasts, please advise even if you recommend smaller boats, four new boats are possible, NGH reply on verso: depends on what you want, younger people with smaller boats concentrated on racing, older people with larger people, exagerrations developed in the P-class [a reference to #709s JOYANT et al] are not at all attractive to me and I would be sorry to have such craft repeated in larger classes and hope rules will be modified accordingly, current large P-boats with long overhangs and short keels cannot be good sea boats and it will be very hard to steer them in a sea, #666s AVENGER and #694s SHIMNA are very perfect models but could be outbuilt to give more speed, hollow wooden masts better than steel masts unless in very large craft, topmast being liable to accidents should be separate, PS: ISTALENA has shrunk but very little but I think it would be well to put her afloat very soon" (Source: Pynchon, George M. (incl NGH reply). Letter to N.G. Herreshoff. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Item MR_23990. Correspondence, Folder 70. 1911-06-06.)
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"[Item Description:] [#709s] JOYANT &c protest not to be submitted to YRALIS but to Committee, convention will establish limits to classes as there is no telling where you designers will end at the present rate, JOYANT is only a couple of years older than [#687s] CARA MIA [ex-NAULAKHA] and has double displacement yet rates the same, had a splendid cruise on ENCHANTRESS, she is a fine cruiser but no match for ELENA, [#657s] IROLITA [ex-QUEEN] was so badly sailed, PS: you did not enclose profile of JOYANT" (Source: Duncan, W. Butler, Jr. Letter to N.G. Herreshoff. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Item MR_42880. Correspondence, Folder 92, formerly 127. 1911-07-19.)
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"[Item Description:] found your profile of [#709s JOYANT], surprise to find the lines as fair as they were as the boat when sailing gave an entirely different point of view, do not see how they can rule JOYANT, think it will mean revision of the rules as that particular clause is too vague & there must be some limits to size in each class" (Source: Duncan, W. Butler, Jr. Letter to N.G. Herreshoff. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Item MR_42890. Correspondence, Folder 92, formerly 127. 1911-07-19.)
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"[Item Description:] saw [#709s] JOYANT for the first time, do not see but what her stem & stern lines are fair, but what about a section at quarter beam, she looks curious there, I consider her much too big for the intention of the class, would it do to limit overhangs to 50% of W.L. allowing 25% for each end?, or will it be also necessary to limit displacement & sail area?, I found a small cruising boat for [son] David, small schooner Crowningshield built for himself, was on the EYC Cruise, I liked her very much for a plaything, called the FAME. [Incl NGH reply:] there is indeed an ever so slight hollow in a diagonal direction on JOYANT but not in vertical direction where quarter beam is measured, quite true that JOYANT is larger in size than other P boats, the intention of the [Universal] rule does not limit the size and in fact it is intended to encourage a large displacement which for general purposes means a better boat provided she is speedy, only reason to kick at JOYANT are her long ends which in a rough sea will make her labor and be uncomfortable, if rules are amended to prohibit this fault there is little else that need be done, but if you would limit both sail area and overall length you can certainly keep the classes down to the original sizes, suppose you limit each class as follows, [table with class dimensions]" (Source: Duncan, W. Butler, Jr. (incl NGH reply). Letter to N.G. Herreshoff. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Item MR_42900. Correspondence, Folder 92, formerly 127. 1911-07-24.)
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"[Item Transcription:] I am enclosing the LWL of WESTWARD [#692s] and RAINBOW [#532s]. Would you be good enough to give me their displacements. I understand the WESTWARD, like ELENA [#706s], does not take a Q.B.L. penalty, but apparently RAINBOW does.
I have the profiles for the Committee & I think they will sit up and take notice when they see the stem-line of JOYANT [#709s]. About everybody I have talked to gives our interpretation of 'fair line'." (Source: Hallock, W. (Meas. NYYC). Letter to N.G. Herreshoff. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Item MR_75670. Measuring and Measurement Rules (Box 2), Folder B2F17, formerly MRDE15. 1911-07-27.)
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"[Item Description:] sorry not to see you last Sunday, was on ATLANTIC, saw you sailing around the harbor & waved frantically, but you would not come near, do not think much of racing those big fellows, have not heard lately as to a change in the rules [re #709s JOYANT], I hear unofficially the Manhasset Bay Race Committee have split [on decision to rule out JOYANT]" (Source: Duncan, W. Butler, Jr. Letter to N.G. Herreshoff. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Item MR_42930. Correspondence, Folder 92, formerly 127. 1911-08-18.)
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"[Item Description:] English vs Universal rule, need your advice re #709s JOYANT and #708s CORINTHIAN to prevent extreme changes to measurement rule, racing between #706s ELENA and #692s WESTWARD, #657s IROLITA ex-QUEEN quite as fast, Baker and Dodge consider building in #666s AVENGER and #694s SHIMNA class, incl. NGH reply: International Rule inferior to Universal Rule because too many measurements are taken, thus restricting design and because it leads to yachts to as well suited to general yachting purposes, JOYANT and CORINTHIAN show how well our rule works (fine showing of JOYANT due to good handling), alternative rating formulae, WESTWARD vs ELENA vs QUEEN, SHIMNA has not been beaten yet and it will be hard to do so" (Source: Cormack, George A. (incl NGH reply). Letter to N.G. Herreshoff. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Item MR_24300. Correspondence, Folder 71. 1911-08-26.)
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"[Item Description:] confidentially, have heard Manhassett Bay Committee will make following report, 1) that the words 'at or near the plane of measurement' are to mean B/10 above or below the W.L., 2) that a fair line is curve which does not increase or diminish its curvature, 3) that in case a bridge is necessary the measurement will be taken to the flattest curve in the prescribed area, 4) [#708s] CORINTHIAN, WINDWARD & two Boston boats will be ruled out as not having filed returns of crews in accordance with deed, 5) [#709s] JOYANT will be measured in accordance with the above & if she exceeds 31 rating will be ruled out, 6) [#687s] CARA-MIA [ex-NAULAKHA] would then win" (Source: Duncan, W. Butler, Jr. Letter to N.G. Herreshoff. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Item MR_42940. Correspondence, Folder 92, formerly 127. 1911-08-30.)
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"[Item Description:] quite agree with you & have been working all this week to have that decision [to rule out #709s JOYANT] changed, define fair line, define 'near plane of measurement', am afraid there are no boats out for the NYYC Regatta except the NY30s" (Source: Duncan, W. Butler, Jr. Letter to N.G. Herreshoff. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Item MR_42950. Correspondence, Folder 92, formerly 127. 1911-09-01.)
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"[Item Description:] nothing has been done as to [#709s] JOYANT yet, they cannot agree, designers around here do not like the idea of taxing overall length, they are afraid of going back to stubby boats, Vanderbilt would build in the 65 foot schooner class if any one would go in with him, about 78ft LWL, but troubles in stock market and general business conditions will probably prevent others from joining" (Source: Duncan, W. Butler, Jr. Letter to N.G. Herreshoff. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Item MR_42960. Correspondence, Folder 92, formerly 127. 1911-09-28.)
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"[Item Description:] your proposition as to limiting overhangs was talked over but everyone is afraid that will lead to snubbed ends, it was suggested to limit displacement, resolved to form committee, #709s JOYANT will not be disqualified, the measurer won't take instructions how to measure" (Source: Duncan, W. Butler, Jr. Letter to N.G. Herreshoff. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Item MR_42980. Correspondence, Folder 92, formerly 127. 1911-10-17.)
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"[Item Description:] New sub-committee of George Cormack, Sherman Hoyt and Charles Lane Poor to eliminate vagueness of notches, jogs & fairline rule which caused so much trouble last summer [concerning #709s JOYANT]." (Source: Duncan, W. Butler, Jr. Letter to N.G. Herreshoff. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Item MR_43000. Correspondence, Folder 92, formerly 127. 1911-11-06.)
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"[Item Description:] committee of Poor, Jarvis & Sparkman have decided the Manhasset Bay Cup & have rendered a rotten decision, [#709s] JOYANT and [#708s] CORINTHIAN disqualified on their form, Sparkman wrote minority report dead against the others, am sorry it has come out this was, will hurt things in general very much, am afraid newspaper controvery will result" (Source: Duncan, W. Butler, Jr. Letter to N.G. Herreshoff. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Item MR_43010. Correspondence, Folder 92, formerly 127. 1911-11-21.)
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"[Item Description:] new boat of #709s JOYANT type for Cornelius Vanderbilt, dissent with #709s JOYANT and #708s CORINTHIAN Manhasset Cup decision which will bring new yacht building to standstill, sail measuring, incl. NGH reply: we could build two 80ft schooners if started very soon, price redution for two not as big as for smaller boats, Manhasset Cup decision outrageous, believe JOYANT would be faster without her excessive overhangs, long overhangs not hollow lines should be banned, large displacement should be allowed, sail measuring, agree that a measuring rule needs amendments" (Source: Cormack, George A. (incl NGH reply). Letter to N.G. Herreshoff. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Item MR_24340. Correspondence, Folder 71. 1911-11-23.)
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"[Item Description:] Untitled penciled graph labeled 'Rating & class limits' on an x-axis that ranges from 0 to 140 in 10ft steps and featuring an unlabeled y-axis that ranges from 0 to 100 in 10 unit steps, showing three curves: One labeled 'overall', the next one unlabeled, the third one labeled 'w.l.'. On verso is a sketch of two hull profiles, one being apparently a scaled version of the other, one labeled 'Q', the other labeled 'P' and marked in lower right 'Scale 2mm + 1 foot'. Undated, filed with other 1912-05 measurement rule and #709s JOYANT controversy correspondence and notes." (Source: Herreshoff, N.G. (creator). Diagram. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Item MR_75830. Measuring and Measurement Rules (Box 2), Folder B2F17, formerly MRDE15. No date (filed with 1912-05 correspondence).)
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"[Item Transcription:] I have been appointed one of a Committee of three to run the races for the Manhasset Bay Cup this year, over which, I believe, there was such a squabble last year, especially in regard to your two boats the 'JOYANT' [#709s] and 'CORINTHIAN' [#708s].
The question of measurement will be one of the things this Committee will have to decide. Personally, I am in favor of sticking strictly by our rule as it now is, which does not define bridging of notches, angles or curves in any form. In the event, however, of the other two men being opposed to me, I would like your opinion of the fee modified form of bridging you could suggest for use in measuring the 'JOYANT' and 'CORINTHIAN'. I have not seen either of these boats in the water, but my understanding is the longer the bridging the longer they measure. [Incl NGH reply (the first part of which appears on verso of Butler Duncan letter dated May 21, 1912):] ... perfectly justified in addressing the[?] his decision in the matter.
I inclose[sic] the profiles of both these boats and you will see there not notches or jugs or unfair lines near the waterline.
Lines passing through the points of termination of the quarter beam length are perfectly fair lines with only a very slight reverse or hollow curve in the overhang aft of the after point of quarter beam measurement.
I think you know that I donot believe in the present method in measuring length at the water line and not ensuring overhangs or length on overall length. I hope to see the rules changed before long and stiar[?] then we will have much less wrangling and better boats.
I wrote Mr Duncan of the N.Y.Y.C. Committee last winter suggesting a method of measuring length and as you were of the Committee perhaps you are familiar with it." (Source: Emmons, Robert W. (incl NGH reply). Letter to N.G. Herreshoff. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Item MR_75860. Measuring and Measurement Rules (Box 2), Folder B2F17, formerly MRDE15. 1912-05-17.)
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"[Item Transcription:] I have received no reply from you to my letter of May 17th [re measuring #709s JOYANT and #708s CORINTHIAN]. I enclose you copy sent me of four different methods of bridging, which will be brought up by Chas. Lane Poor, one of the three members of the Manhasset Bay Committee.
We have now decided on the third member, but as I am not absolutely sure how he will stand, I would like to have your opinion on all of these. While I have been on the New York Committee and approve the method they have suggested I do not necessarily think it should be enforced on boats built under the present rule, and I shall endeavor this year to have the races sailed under strict instruction of rules as they now are; nevertheless, a compromise may have to be made, and in that event I should like, as I wrote in my last letter, any suggestions you may have of modified form of measurement, whether of bridging or otherwise. [Incl NGH reply:] Replying to yours of 17th and 21st. I have looked upon the proposed 'Methods of Bridging' of which you inclosed copy and also the ruling for the measurement of waterline and quarter beam length as it appears in the NYYC Book of 1911 and also in the YRA of LI Sound [YRALIS] of 1910 which are Identical. (I have not a 1911 book of the YRA of LI Sound.]
The rule directs as follows:
In case there are any notches, jogs, curves, or angles at or near the plane of measurement of either the load water line or quarterbeam length, they shall be taken to a fair line bridging such notches curves jogs or angles.
You will notice that it directs a fair line bridging &c, not a straight line and does not prohibit a hollow line so called. In my judgment the rule is complete and strong in this present language. It was well drawn up and should not be tampered with. A fair line is not necessarily a straight line, but a curved line that is a correction of an unfair or cocked line and with this understanding the rule is perfectly rational and by making a bridging in that way it would measure the waterline and quarterbeam honestly and give a value to them, and I believe that is all any unprejudiced man can ask for.
I agree that are quite right in sticking to the rule as it now is and believe if the other members of the Committee are fair minded they and[? also?] will see the absurdity in attempting to correct a curved line bridging it by a straight line. It would not be the intent of the rule or give a just measurement. The NYYC measurer[?] Prof. Hallock measured the CORINTHIAN and JOYANT correctly, and was ... [remainder of NGH reply appears on verso of Butler Duncan letter dated May 17, 1912.]" (Source: Emmons, Robert W. (incl NGH reply). Letter to N.G. Herreshoff. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Item MR_75880. Measuring and Measurement Rules (Box 2), Folder B2F17, formerly MRDE15. 1912-05-21.)
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"[Item Description:] Mimeographed paper titled 'Methods of Bridging' and summarizing four different methods of doing so: Method suggested by Charles Lane Poor, Method of International Yacht Racing Ynion (as a result of KLABAUTERMANN protest), Method agreed upon for the race between the Chicago and Canadian Clubs, Method suggested by the Committee of the New York Yacht Club, to be presented to Atlantic Coast Conference. Necessitated by protest against #709s JOYANT and #708s CORINTHIAN. I enclose you copy sent me of four different methods of bridging. Believed to have been prepared by Charles Lane Poor and sent by R.W. Emmons with letter dated May 21, 1912." (Source: Poor, Charles Lane (sent by Emmons, Robert W.). Correspondence (measurement rule) to N.G. Herreshoff. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Item MR_75900. Measuring and Measurement Rules (Box 2), Folder B2F17, formerly MRDE15. No date (sent with R. W. Emmons letter 1912-05-21).)
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"[Item Transcription:] At the request of both the American and Seawanhaka Yacht Clubs, I have consented to act as the third member of the Manhasset Bay Challenge Cup Committee.
I trust that there will be no differences this year and that the race may be pulled off in a satisfactory manner, but to make assurance doubly sure, if any occasion should occur to cause a protest of measurement I wish to be prepared, so I am going to ask you if you will send me the profiles of the JOYANT [#709s] and CORINTHIAN [#708s] on half inch scale, also quarter beam profiles.
I shall not show these drawings unless it becomes absolutely necessary, but in view of the decided stand that I took last year about these two boats, as I said previously, I wish to be fortified by data.
I trust that you had a pleasant Winter and that your holiday brought you renewed health.
I shall endeavor to get to Bristol as soon as possible.
I should like to see you very much. [Incl NGH reply:] Replying to your kind note of 25th relating to the Manhasset Bay Challenge Cup Committee I am inclosing a drawing showing profiles of JOYANT and CORINTHIAN at each end, also plotted lines showing the interaction[?] of a vertical plane passing though the points of quarterbeam measurement of JOYANT only as she is a little more in the extreme of that type of model.
You will see there are no jogs or notches and that all the curved lines are fair lines even to a much critical eye. The rule says in case there are any notches jogs curves or angles the measurement shall be taken to a fair line bridging such notches & c. There is nothing about bridging with a straight line and I presume those who drew up the rule had more sense than to suppose bridging with a straight line would be fair or practicable.
It is beyond my comprehension how that Committee of last year could have misconstrued the rule and allowed any protest at all.
I had a letter a few days ago from Mr. Emmons and I sent him a similar sketch also[? although?] made at 3/4in scale instead of 1/2in as that is the scale of the models and of course more accurate than transposing to a smaller scale.
Hoping that you had a comfortable Winter and that I will see you soon, ..." (Source: Cormack, George A. (incl NGH reply). Letter to N.G. Herreshoff. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Item MR_75800. Measuring and Measurement Rules (Box 2), Folder B2F17, formerly MRDE15. 1912-05-25.)
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"[Item Description:] thank you for letter and drawings, agree with you as to meaning of Rule, don't know if these matches [Manhasset Cup] will be sailed without controversy or not, the boats [#709s JOYANT and #708s CORINTHIAN] will be measured the way they should be and there should not be any bridging of notches, jogs or curves, PS: have idea about new class of boats larger than #663s ISTALENA, #664s WINSOME and #667s AURORA, new Gardner boat will meet #666s AVENGER soon, #667s AURORA's new sails are good" (Source: Cormack, George A. Letter to N.G. Herreshoff. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Item MR_17890. Correspondence, Folder 48, formerly 75. 1912-06-03.)
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"[Item Description:] please give displacement of the #709s JOYANT on load waterline of 35.20, forward overhang being 12.10, after overhang, 11.05, also the draft, thank you for displacements of [#708s] CORINTHIAN and [#687s] CARA MIA [ex-NAULAKHA] just received." (Source: Barney, Morgan (Measurer American YC). Letter to N.G. Herreshoff. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Item MR_05580. Correspondence, Folder 20, formerly 136. 1912-06-11.)
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"[Item Description:] notice of telegram: hear that eligibility of #709s JOYANT and #708s CORINTHIAN will be questioned on scantlings, please put all info in my hands ASAP, incl NGH reply: would like to know who is so hostile to these boats and why should they be attacked, were built to to fill requirements of YRALIS, Hallock measured them and they filled all requirements" (Source: Cormack, George A. (incl NGH reply). Correspondence (telegram notice) to N.G. Herreshoff. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Item MR_17870. Correspondence, Folder 48, formerly 75. 1912-06-19.)
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"[Item Description:] am heartily sick of the whole affair, #709s JOYANT and #708s CORINTHIAN should get get full justice, meaningless bickering on the part of certain parties is very detrimental to the sport, rest assured that your interests will be protected, #706s ELENA had to come to class B, am off this afternoon for New London to join #667s AURORA and sail in a match to-morrow from that place to Mattinicock Buoy" (Source: Cormack, George A. Letter to N.G. Herreshoff. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Item MR_17900. Correspondence, Folder 48, formerly 75. 1912-06-21.)
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"[Item Description:] Harold Vanderbilt much interested in schooner proposition, will write to Mr. [S. Reed?] Anthony to see how he feels about the new class, Mr [George?] Baker seems to be indefinite about M class future plan, incl. NGH reply: #709s JOYANT's peculiar form comes from giving her abnormally long ends which have proved of no value in racing" (Source: Cormack, George A. (incl NGH reply). Letter to N.G. Herreshoff. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Item MR_24400. Correspondence, Folder 71. 1912-09-03.)
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"[Item Transcription:] I received your note with the proposed new racing rules and thank you very much for sending it to me.
Is this a cut and dried schedule of the rules to be passed? If so I am disappointed for I expected some changes from the present ones that would improve and simplify them.
I hope I will not offend you or anyone who may have had a hand in drawing up the changes but I want to criticize them a little, and trust it may be of some use.
To begin. I cannot see the slightest need in defining notches, jogs, curves or angles any more than in the present rules which is well drawn up and covers any case. This change is probably suggested by the unwarranted attack on JOYANT [#709s] last year. JOYANT has long over hangs which should be ruled against. They were made so by request, not that I approved of them. JOYANT has proved a good boat and is liked by those who have sailed in her, nevertheless I am convinced she would be better in every way, and faster, had the ends been or normal length.
I have applied a straight edge as directed[?] to JOYANT's model and find there is [next three words underlined] absolutely no hollow at the points of quarter beam measurement and only very slight (about 1/2of one percent) hollow at the forward end of l.w.l.
[Next sentence crossed out:] But what is the sense in haggling about hollow lines any way, or any penalizing in form, as long as there are not notches or jogs out[?] for the evident purpose of evading some rule. A simple and sensable[sic] is needed to limit overhangs.
Why not do it directly instead of this proposed limit restriction.
I see lug foresails are not ruled against.
Don't you think it would be well to allow the schooner wants to carry a lug foresail them[?] or[?] for[?] extrem[?] men who carry life insurance polices covering damages from handling the lug foresail.
Certainly, if lug foresails were vetoed, it would be as fair for one as another, or if the love for the lug foresail is so great that the schooner men could not sail without it, just measure the area aft the end of fore boom and add it to the sail area.
Why has the gaff to be 'laying on top of the boom' when being measured?
Assuming the diagonal in mainsail at 96% of the maximum is better than the present method and I approve of it.
In measuring P the perpendicular along aft side of foremast. Why not measure to the upper side of fore boom instead of a distance above deck same as used on main mast?
Every new water line measurement should have a corresponding displacement determine[?] .
I do not see the wisdom in limiting displacement. Big displacement yachts are always the best and most wholesome type. As far as my observation goes the divisor cube-rt(D) is working out perfectly. Under equally good handling the P class boats of different displacement came out alike.
I am not convinced JOYANT is any faster than CARA MIA [#687s ex-NAULAKHA] or CORINTHIAN [#708s] due to the large displacement.
I hope you will look over carefully the suggested changes in the rules I have sent to Mr Cormack for I think there are some things that would be of real value." (Source: Herreshoff, N.G. Letter to Duncan, W. Butler. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Item MR_75770. Measuring and Measurement Rules (Box 2), Folder B2F17, formerly MRDE15. 1912-09-08.)
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"[Item Transcription:] Order book with carbon copy duplicates of instructions given by NGH. Relevant contents:
§42: Work Order [For] #709s. [When wanted] Early May (Delivery May 20) Rigging [3 pages] (1911-03-01)
§45: Work Order [For] #709s. [When wanted] April 20th. Merriman Blocks (1911-03-03)
§46: Work Order [For] #709s. [When wanted] Early in May. HMCo Blocks (1911-03-03)." (Source: Herreshoff, N.G. (creator). Order Book. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Item MRDE08_04730. Folder [no #]. 1909-10 to 1914-11.)
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"[Item Description:] Handwritten (in ink) rating rule-related table on two pages with dimensions LOA, LWL, overhang fore & aft, mean length, freeboard fore & center & aft, breadth deck & w.l., draft, cube-root (displacement), 1st mast mean length, 1st to 2nd mast, J, P1, H1, B1, G1, V1, T1, P2, P2a, H2, B2, Q2, Y2,T2, sail area, sqrt(SA), sqrt(SA - NYYC Rule) for #605s RELIANCE, #499s COLUMBIA, #725s RESOLUTE, #529s MINEOLA, #663s ISTALENA, #666s AVENGER, New York 50s (#711s, #712s, #713s, #714s, #715s, #716s, #717s, #720s, #721s), #411s GLORIANA, #685s ADVENTURESS, #617s COCK ROBIN II, #586s NELLIE, #709s JOYANT, #708s CORINTHIAN, #670s SENECA, Bar Harbor 31s (#592s, #593s, #594s, #595s, #596s, #597s, #598s, #599s, #600s, #601s, #602s, #603s, #604s), New York 30s (#626s, #627s, #628s, #629s, #630s, #631s, #632s, #633s, #635s, #636s, #637s, #638s, #639s, #640s, #642s, #643s, #647s, #648s), Newport 29s (#727s, #728s, #737s), #691s MORE JOY, #446s ALERION II, Buzzards Bay 550s (#733s, #734s, #736s, #738s, #741s), #617s COCK ROBIN II, #493s JILT, #732s SADIE, #460s KILDEE, Buzzards Bay 15s (#503s Class), Buzzards Bay 12 1/2s (#744s Class), #703s FLYING CLOUD, #669s ELEANOR, #722s KATOURA, #692s WESTWARD, #657s QUEEN, #719s VAGRANT II, #698s VAGRANT, #663s ISTALENA, and #743s HASWELL. With penciled note 'Measurements in ft & inches. Results in ft & decimals'. Undated (the youngest boat on this list is from 1914/1915 and this was probably prepared in preparation for NGH's sail area rating rule of 1914/1915)." (Source: Herreshoff, N.G. (creator). Handwritten Table. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Item MRDE15_00100. Folder [no #]. No date (1914 / 1915 ?).)
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"[Item Description:] Penciled cost estimates and cost calculations titled 'P Class' and showing contract price, 'cost of material & labor record', '+ 25% [for shop overhead]', '+15% [for profit]', '+ 20% increase 1916' with subtotals and grand totals for #687s NAULAHKA, #708s CORINTHIAN and #709s JOYANT. " (Source: Herreshoff, N.G. (?) (creator). Cost Estimate. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Item MRDE03_01020. Folder [no #]. No date (1916 or later).)
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"[Item Description:] Penciled table titled 'P Class' with data for OA, WL, Beam, Breadth at wl, Draft, Displacement, cube-root(D), Sail area, sqrt (S), Rating, wetted surface, S/WS, cube-root([blank]) / wl for #670s SENECA, #687s CARA MIA, #708s CORINTHIAN, #709s JOYANT, NAHMA ([designed by Addison G.] Hanan [and built by B.F. Wood in 1916]) and 'Proposed' [design]." (Source: Herreshoff, N.G. (creator). Penciled Table. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Item MRDE03_01190. Folder [no #]. No date (1916 or later ?).)
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"[Item Description:] Penciled sailplan sketch of two superimposed yachts with two different rigs (gaff and marconi). With calculations comparing 'P class' (LWL 34ft, LOA 54ft, displ. 390cuft [= 24960lbs], sail area = 1365sqft) and 'NYYC 30 [#626s class] = 1000lbs[?]' (LWL about 30ft 8in, QBL about 30.7ft, L about 31.0ft, displacement 291cuft [= 18624lbs], sail area 1340sqft and 1300sqft). With note 'CARA MIA [#687s ex-NAULAKHA] 3.60, CORINTHIAN [#708s] 3.80, JOYANT [#709s] 3.74'. On verso of an envelope to NGH in Bristol postmarked January 27, 1916." (Source: Herreshoff, N.G. (creator). Penciled Sketch. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Item MRDE03_01220. Folder [no #]. No date (1916-01-27 or later).)
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"[Item Transcription:] As lately there has been talk about changing the rule for rating measurement for yachts and, if changed, to make it a 'sail area rule', I have tabulated some of the data on file with the Race Committee and enclose a copy thinking that it might be of interest. [NP] The tabulation shows the relationship between RM and the square root of sail area, as well as between racing length and the cube root of displacement. From the tabulated figures it would seem that rating measurement might be determined directly from the square root of sail area, as shown in column headed 'X', which is about 0.85 for sloops and 0.78 for schooners, provided a consistent relationship was maintained between L (see column Y) and also between the square root of sail area divided by the cube root of displacement (see column Z). [NP] As displacement is an element troublesome to determine, it would seem as if it might be possible to use Coefficient times (LWL x beam x draft), in place of displacement. She Coefficient is shown in the column headed 'Coef.' which is approximately 0.16 for sloops and 0.18 for schooners. [NP] The product of dividing the square root of sail area by the cube root of displacement is shown in column '2', and the result is approximately 5.3. [NP] It would seem from a study of these figures that a simplified rule might be obtained.
[Incl. blueprint table titled 'Relation between R.M. and sq-rt(S.A.) & L, also between sq-rt(S.A.) & cube-rt(D) in Racing Formula for Rating Measurement for Sloops New York Yacht Club. September 1919. H. de B. Parsons, 22 Williams Street, New York.' and providing comparative data for N.Y.Y.C 30 (New York 30 Class), #709s JOYANT, ALEDA, NAHMA, JOSEPHINE, ALICE, DORELLO, #685s KALINGA (ex-ADVENTURESS), MEDORA, DORELLO II, N.Y.Y.C 40 (New York 40 Class), N.Y.Y.C 50 [New York 50 Class), #666s AVENGER, #694s SHIMNA, #625s DORIS, N.Y.Y.C 65 (New York 65 Class).]
[Incl. blueprint table titled 'Relation between R.M. and sq-rt(S.A.) & L, also between sq-rt(S.A.) & cube-rt(D) in Racing Formula for Rating Measurement for Schooners New York Yacht Club. September 1919. H. de B. Parsons, 22 Williams Street, New York.' and providing comparative data for Sound Schooner Class, VENONA, MILADI, SIMITAR, AMORILLA, #698s QUEEN MAB (ex-VAGRANT I), TIMANDRA, FLYING CLOUD, RADIANT, #663s IROLITA (ex-ISATLENA), TAORMINA, KATRINA, PRINCESS, IRIS, MURIEL, #719s VAGRANT, #772s MARIETTE, SAVARONA, ARIEL, SEA FOX, ENDYMION, #435s CORONA (ex-COLONIA), INVADER, ENCHANTRESS, #706s ELENA).]
[Incl. envelope postmarked Oct 2 (1919) and labeled in pencil by NGH 'Letter from H. deB Parsons about sailarea rule'.]
[Incl NGH reply:] Your very interesting letter of 2nd inst came while I was away on a little cruise, and since my return I have been so very busy that I have not found time to make a study of the tables you inclosed.
There are some good reasons for using sail area as a foundation for rating and I have been much interested in the scheme for several years, and, in fact, spent considerable time in the winter of 1914-15 in making a thorough study of the subject and formulating rules and restrictions necessary with using the sail area rating.
Your study considers existing racing yachts which, with only few exceptions were built since the present measurement rule went into effect. In my studies I also condiered the possible modifications in form and proportions that would arise under the sailarea rating.
To prevent abnormal and unwholesome types being constructed, I found it absolutely necessary to make restrictions or limitations in a number of elements, to wit over all length, and cube root of displacement, in relation to square root of sailarea, freeboard in relation to mean length ((oa+l2)/2), draft up water in relation to square root of sail area but modified in larger sizes for conveniences[?] of navigation.
So by[blank?] in safeguarding the sailarea rating I found it was necessary to take practically the same number of measurements as we do now. Therefore the gain in making a change from our present formula (C * ((L*sq-rt(S) / cube-rt(D)) to (K * sq-rt(S) is a doubtful one.
The problem of getting the most speed with least driving power or crew, would be an interesting one, but if it becomes necessary to enact restrictions & limitations to keep yachts in wholesome form you are really driving designers to work to stereotyped proportions.
If a few slight changes were made in our present [Universal] measurement rules and our present formula (C * ((L*sq-rt(S) / cube-rt(D))used without any limitations it would be good enough for universal adoption and without time limit as it has already been well tried out." (Source: Parsons, Harry DeBerkeley (incl NGH reply). Letter to N.G. Herreshoff. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Item MR_72930. Measuring and Measurement Rules (Box 2), Folder B2F05, formerly MRDE15. 1919-10-02.)
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"[Item Transcription:] Dear Mr. Morgan.
Please excuse my negligence in not acknowledging your kind letter of [September] 10th [1925]. I will be glad to advise about changes of launch [#282p CORSAIR] until I leave for the south and I shall in a few days begin the design for an R boat [#932s GAMECOCK] for you.
In relation to certain changes in Racing rules appertaining[?] to Measurements principally which I have to suggest I donot want to be considered as one making unnecessary trouble for the yacht owners or do it for any personal advantage. it is only to correct defects and get the Rules in best possible form, and have them so they will not produjest[?] the most desirable type of yacht.
To my mind such results can only be got at thru experimentation and to that end rules must necessarily be changed from time to time, so that manifest[?] improvements in type of yachts will at least be merited.
The general formula for obtaining rating I donot think can be improved, but I do think it unfortunate that the coefficient .18 had not been made .2 in the first place so the rating would be nearer to L in a normal boat. But a change now would not be desirable as the classification would have to be changed to kick yachts in their respective classes.
The present method of obtaining L I think very faulty and should be improved. The relation of Q.B. length to l.w.l. should not be dictated, but each should be taken at its value to produce the best type of yacht. There is no reason why q.b.l. should bear[?] a relation of 100% - sq-rt(lwl) and it is quite wrong to allow sharper water lines in large yachts than small ones. If a fixed relation between lwl and q.b.l. was desirable it would be better to have it the same in all sizes but it is not desirable.
Seeing the tendency to make the overhangs very flat in order to gain more useful length for racing that is not measured, I propose to take another length measurement in the same plane that Q.B.L. is taken in and then combine it with lwl and qbl to obtain L. I suggest that the plane from which all calculations are made be called 'Established waterline plane' instead of Load waterline plane, and the length taken in this plane be called 'Established waterline' (E.W.L.). The new measurement taken in plane 1/10 of breadth above be called Load waterline (L.w.l.).
Also. Change the name 'Quarter beam length' to 'Quarter breadth length' (Q.B.L.) as the time honored Breadth of Beam is the breadth at height of main beam and not at waterline.
The formula for obtaining L I propose shall be L = (LWL + EWL + 2*QBL) / 4.
In this formula I consider the three length measurements are taken at their relative values for racing and preventing the ends from becoming too flat for comfortable motion in a seaway. After experiments use it is still found bows are made too flat for easy motion in sea, the formula might be changed to L = (LWL + EWL + 3*QBL) / 5.
This of course does away with the formula 'Percentage + 100 - sq-rt(l.w.l.)'.
Limits and Penalties.
Draft of water is not used as a factor in measurement. The only object in having a limitation is for convenience in docking and navigation, both for easy motion at sea and ability to navigate in waters of restricted depth. The present limitation rule is simple, but does not fill the requirements properly. It allows an unnecessary amount of draft in small boats and not enough in yachts of intermediate classes.
As examples the 75 foot w.l. yachts SHAMROCK VANITIE and RESOLUTE [#725s] all had centreboards beside a full allowance of draft. ELENA [#706s] schooner had centreboard beside full allowance of draft.
To improve this limitation I suggest a modification of the rule as follows:-
When L is 16ft or under draft limit .25L
When L is between 16ft & 36 draft limit .22*(L=2.18)
[etc, etc]
In centreboard yachts draft when centreboard is up not to exceed .125L.
Penalty to overdraft to be as now ( 3 times excess added to Rating).
I am opposed to the limit put[?] and[?] displacement in divisor of Rating measurement formula.
I know it was advised and adopted without due amount of trial of the formula as it originally stood. It came about when to[?] P class yacht JOYANT [#709s] had made a very successful season at racing in command of Addison Hanan. Hanan was a very clever helmsman and had been winning out in other boats. After JOYANT's initial season under HANAN she never showed more than average speed but has always been considered a desirable type of yacht, excepting that she had excessive overhang and that might fairly have been attacked instead of displacement. Her cube-rt(D) / lwl = .23. VAGRANT [#719s] and class cube-rt(D) / lwl = .217. QUEEN MAB [ex #698s VAGRANT I] .2185.
FLYING CLOUD [#703s] and HASWELL [#743s] .22.
All I consider the most satisfactory yachts fit for deep sea cruising and at the same time fast enough to give good sport in racing.
Another consideration is Yachts built to Lloyd's Rules are so heavy in hull construction that it is quite necessary to have cube-rt(D) / L more than 20% * lwl + .5 in order to carry sufficient amount of ballast.
I hope to see this limitation expurgated from the rules.
The restriction of position of mainmast in (two-masted) schooners to aft of 53% of water line length has no justification and is a devv[?] strict against improvement[?].
My experience indicates that the best possible position for the mainmast is a little forward of what the rule allows. Can any one give a good reason why the position of the mainmast should be restricted? Often the layout of cabin or of deck beams & framing would ask for a position against the ruling. I think it difficult to make any just ruling for placing the mast and it better be left free for future developments. A tentative ruling might be that the centre of mast be not forward of centre of displacement and when in that position the schooners rating to be 95% of that of a sloop rig. If the mast is farther aft each % of w.l. length shall be deducted from 95% rating. That would make the rating with mast in present restricted position about 92% of sloops rating.
The height limit of jib-headed or leg-o-mutton mainsail I should make universal for for[?] any rig and make the upper point of measurement for any sail (including club topsails) from the deck as follows:
Single masted yachts not over 1.8*sq-rt(S)
Two masted yachts not over 1.5*sq-rt(S)
Triple masted yachts not over 1.4*sq-rt(S)
Having a plus constant in the present rule is quite a mistake, as any one can see. [Undated. Reference to 'letter of 10th' shows this to be a response to Junius Morgan's September 10, 1925 letter to NGH and thus would suggest that NGH wrote this about September 15, 1925.]" (Source: Herreshoff, N.G. Letter to Morgan, Junius S. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Item MR_31080. Subject Files, Folder 30, formerly 10-15. 1925-09-(ca15 ?).)
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"[Item Description:] Re NGH and Nichols letters in Yachting 1, 1927 on Universal rule, pleased with what Nichols wrote about NY40s and NY50s that heavy displacement boats like the NY40s should be credited with their full displacement, unfortunate that NYYC changed the rule at suggestion of Gardner only while heavy displacement #709s JOYANT had won in first light wind season, in later years she was not a winner and doubtful NY40s could save their time in a long series with all weather for they are not the proper proportion for racing, dimensions for best proportioned boats, suggestion how to overcome big boats in classes, discussion of maximum speed of heavy displacement vessels as a function of length of wave that is generated, few yachtsmen understand fundamental Universal Rule formula which really is a length measurement corrected by ratio of driving to power resistance" (Source: Herreshoff, N.G. Letter to (Nichols), George. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum Item MR_44270. Correspondence, Folder 97. 1927-01-09.)
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Note: This list of archival documents contains in an unedited form any and all which mention #709s Joyant even if just in a cursory way. Permission to digitize, transcribe and display is gratefully acknowledged.
Further Reading
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Anon. "Sightings. Joyant - Back from the Dead." Latitude 38, April, 2001, p. 134-135. http://rutherfordboats.com/JoyantArticle.pdf, retrieved April 9, 2014. (1,607 kB)
Document is copyrighted: Yes. Vessel story. Restoration story. -
Brown, Nicholas. "Joyant. A 1911 Herreshoff P-Boat's Improbable Return." Wooden Boat #169, November/December 2002, p. 52-61. (3,361 kB)
Document is copyrighted: Yes. Vessel history. Restoration report. Sail plan. Construction plan. -
McNeil, Bob. "The Undertaking of A Few Minor Repairs. The Restoration of Joyant, a 1911 Herreshoff P Class Sloop." In: Herreshoff Marine Museum (publ.). Proceedings. The Classic Yacht Symposium. April 1 - 3, 2005. Bristol, RI, 2005, p. 91-105. (3,887 kB)
Document is copyrighted: Yes. Copyright holder: Bob Mc Neil / Herreshoff Marine Museum. Photo slide presentation of vessel restoration.
Images
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Further Image Information
Created by: Anon.
Image Caption: "Joyant."
Image Date: 1911---
Published in: Herreshoff, L. Francis. An Introduction to Yachting. New York, 1963, p. 169.
Image is copyrighted: No known restrictions
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Jackson, Willard B. "Joyant [#709s.]" Photograph, negative no. 3705, 1911 or later.
Further Image Information
Created by: Jackson, Willard B.
Image Caption: [Joyant.]
Negative Number: 3705
Image Date: 1911---
Published in: Murphy, Matthew P. Glass Plates & Wooden Boats. The Yachting Photography of Willard B. Jackson. Beverly, Massachusetts, 2006, p. 143.
Collection: Francis Russell Hart Nautical Collections, MIT Museum, Cambridge, Mass., acc. no. 04-046.
Image is copyrighted: Yes
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Further Image Information
Created by: Jackson, Willard B.
Image Caption: "The sloop Joyant."
Negative Number: 3716
Image Date: 1911---
Published in: Herreshoff, L. Francis. The Common Sense of Yacht Design. Vol. II. New York, 1948, p. 52. (Also in: Herreshoff, L. Francis. The Wizard of Bristol. The Life and Achievements of Nathanael Greene Herreshoff, together with An Account of Some of the Yachts he Designed. New York, 1953, p. 128-129.)
Collection: Francis Russell Hart Nautical Collections, MIT Museum, Cambridge, Mass., acc. no. 04-053.
Image is copyrighted: No known U.S. copyright restrictions
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Further Image Information
Created by: Jackson, Willard B.
Image Caption: Joyant.
Negative Number: 3729
Image Date: 1911---
Collection: Francis Russell Hart Nautical Collections, MIT Museum, Cambridge, Mass., acc. no. 04-050.
Image is copyrighted: No known U.S. copyright restrictions
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Further Image Information
Created by: Anon.
Image Caption: [Joyant under marconi rig as she appeared in the 1930s. Photo of a photo in a classified sale advertisement.]
Image Date: 1930 ?
Published in: Yachting, May 1931, p. 38.
Image is copyrighted: No known restrictions
Registers
1912 Lloyd's Register of American Yachts (#1499)
Name: Joyant
Owner: Wm. H. Childs; Port: Greenwich, Conn.; Port of Registry: New York
Official no. 208629; Building Material Wood; Type & Rig K[eel], TC [Trunk Cabin], Slp
Tons Gross 16; Tons Net 10; LOA 58-0; LWL 36-0; Extr. Beam 11-6; Depth 7-3; Draught 7-6
Sailmaker HMCo; Sails made in [19]11; Sail Area 1550
Builder Herreshoff Mfg. Co.; Designer N. G. Herreshoff; Built where Bristol, R.I.; Built when 1911
1914 Lloyd's Register of American Yachts (#1521)
Name: Joyant
Owner: H. Earle Kimball; Port: Providence, R.I.
Official no. 208629; Building Material Wood; Type & Rig K[eel], TC [Trunk Cabin], Slp
Tons Gross 16; Tons Net 10; LOA 58-0; LWL 36-0; Extr. Beam 11-6; Depth 7-3; Draught 7-6
Sailmaker HMCo; Sails made in [19]11; Sail Area 1550
Builder Herreshoff Mfg. Co.; Designer N. G. Herreshoff; Built where Bristol, R.I.; Built when 1911
In 1916 owned [again] by "William H. Childs et al" as per 1916 Lloyd's Register. She was sailed by Clifford Mallory according to contemporary newspaper reports so we may assume that she was jointly owned by Childs and Mallory in 1916.
1917 Lloyd's Register of American Yachts (#1514)
Name: Joyant
Owner: Clifford D. Mallory; Port: Greenwich, Conn.; Port of Registry: New York
Official no. 208629; Building Material Wood; Type & Rig K[eel], TC [Trunk Cabin], Slp
Tons Gross 16; Tons Net 10; LOA 58-0; LWL 36-0; Extr. Beam 11-5; Depth 7-3; Draught 7-5
Sailmaker R&L [Ratsey&Lapthorn New York]; Sails made in [19]16; Sail Area 1550
Builder Herreshoff Mfg. Co.; Designer N. G. Herreshoff; Built where Bristol, R.I.; Built when 1911
1920 Lloyd's Register of American Yachts (#1451)
Name: Joyant
Owner: Thomas B. McGovern, Jr.; Port: Greenwich, Conn.; Port of Registry: New York
Official no. 208629; Building Material Wood; Type & Rig K[eel], TC [Trunk Cabin], Slp
Tons Gross 16; Tons Net 10; LOA 58-0; LWL 36-0; Extr. Beam 11-6; Depth 7-3; Draught 7-6
Sailmaker R&L [Ratsey&Lapthorn New York]; Sails made in [19]16; Sail Area 1550
Builder Herreshoff Mfg. Co.; Designer N. G. Herreshoff; Built where Bristol, R.I.; Built when 1911
Sold in 1922 by W. H. Hackett to W. K. McKarg [or McKary] of Saginaw, Mich. according to newspaper reports.
1923 Lloyd's Register of American Yachts (#1465)
Name: Joyant
Owner: E. N. Smith; Port: Buffalo, N.Y.
Official no. 208629; Building Material Wood; Type & Rig K[eel], TC [Trunk Cabin], Slp
Tons Gross 16; Tons Net 10; LOA 58-0; LWL 36-0; Extr. Beam 11-5; Depth 7-3; Draught 7-5
Sailmaker R&L [Ratsey&Lapthorn New York]; Sails made in [19]16; Sail Area 1550
Builder Herreshoff Mfg. Co.; Designer N. G. Herreshoff; Built where Bristol, R.I.; Built when 1911
1925 Lloyd's Register of American Yachts (#1555)
Name: Joyant
Owner: E. N. Smith; Port: Buffalo, N.Y.
Official no. 208629; Building Material Wood; Type & Rig K[eel], TC [Trunk Cabin], Slp
Tons Gross 16; Tons Net 10; LOA 58-0; LWL 36-0; Extr. Beam 11-6; Depth 7-3; Draught 7-6
Sailmaker R&L [Ratsey&Lapthorn New York]; Sails made in [19]23; Sail Area 1550
Builder Herreshoff Mfg. Co.; Designer N. G. Herreshoff; Built where Bristol, R.I.; Built when 1911
1928 List of Merchant Vessels of the U.S. (#832.32)
Name: Joyant
Owner: Howard F. Baxter; Port: Chicago, Ill.; Port of Registry: Grand Rapids, Mich.
Official no. 208629; Type & Rig Slp.
Tons Gross 16; Tons Net 10; Reg. Length 48.0; Extr. Beam 11.5; Depth 7.2
Built where Bristol, R.I.; Built when 1911
Note: Crew: 2
Howard F. Baxter (1886-1969) was president and general manager of Baxter Laundries Corporation, and an avid recreational sailor.
1930 Lloyd's Register of American Yachts (#2102)
Name: Joyant
Owner: Howard F. Baxter. I[rving] J. Bissell. M[elville] R. Bissell.; Port: Chicago, Ill.
Official no. 208629; Building Material Wood; Type & Rig K[eel], TC [Trunk Cabin], Slp
Tons Gross 16; Tons Net 10; LOA 58-0; LWL 36-0; Extr. Beam 11-5; Depth 7-3; Draught 7-5
Sailmaker R&L [Ratsey&Lapthorn New York]; Sails made in [19]27; Sail Area 1580
Builder Herreshoff Mfg. Co.; Designer N. G. Herreshoff; Built where Bristol, R.I.; Built when 1911
1933 List of Merchant Vessels of the U.S. (#856.35)
Name: Joyant
Owner: H. L. DeLisle (Alexandria Hotel, Chicago, Ill.); Port: Chicago, Ill.
Official no. 208629; Type & Rig Ga.s. [Gasoline engine, screw]
Tons Gross 16; Tons Net 10; Reg. Length 48.0; Extr. Beam 11.5; Depth 7.2
Built where Bristol, R.I.; Built when 1911
Engine Horsepower: 16
Note: Crew: 1
1935 Lloyd's Register of American Yachts (#2344)
Name: Joyant
Owner: Ossian Cook; Port: Chicago, Ill.
Official no. 208629; Building Material Wood; Type & Rig K[eel], TC [Trunk Cabin], Slp
Tons Gross 16; Tons Net 10; LOA 58-0; LWL 36-0; Extr. Beam 11-5; Depth 7-3; Draught 7-5
Sailmaker R&L [Ratsey&Lapthorn New York] and Larsen; Sails made in [19]35; Sail Area 1580
Builder Herreshoff Mfg. Co.; Designer N. G. Herreshoff; Built where Bristol, R.I.; Built when 1911
Note: Power inst. 1930. Rem. 1933.
1940 Lloyd's Register of American Yachts (#2980)
Name: Joyant
Owner: Ossian Cook; Port: Chicago, Ill.
Official no. 208629; Building Material Wood; Type & Rig K[eel], TC [Trunk Cabin], Aux. Slp
Tons Gross 17; Tons Net 10; LOA 58-0; LWL 36-0; Extr. Beam 11-6; Depth 7-3; Draught 7-6
Sailmaker Ratsey and Larsen; Sails made in [19]35; Sail Area 1580
Builder Herreshoff Mfg. Co.; Designer N. G. Herreshoff; Built where Bristol, R.I.; Built when 1911
Engine Gas Eng. 4 Cyc. 8 Cyl. 1937; Maker Scripps
Note: Power inst. 1930. Rem. 1933. Re-inst. 1937.
1947 Lloyd's Register of American Yachts (#2880)
Name: Joyant
Owner: James H. Craig; Port: Miami, Fla.; Port of Registry: Chicago, Ill.
Official no. 208629; Building Material Wood; Type & Rig K[eel], TC [Trunk Cabin], Aux Slp
Tons Gross 17; Tons Net 10; LOA 58-0; LWL 36-0; Extr. Beam 11-6; Depth 7-3; Draught 7-6
Sailmaker Ratsey-Larsen; Sails made in [19]35; Sail Area 1580
Builder Herreshoff Mfg. Co.; Designer N. G. Herreshoff; Built where Bristol, R.I.; Built when 1911
Engine Gas Eng. 4 Cyc. 8 Cyl. 1937; Maker Scripps
Note: Power inst. 1930. Rem. 1933. Re-inst. 1937.
1950 Lloyd's Register of American Yachts (#3250)
Name; Former Name(s): Judy; Joyant
Owner: Herbert Dunhill; Port: Port Washington, N.Y.; Port of Registry: New York
Official no. 208629; Building Material Wood; Type & Rig K[eel], TC [Trunk Cabin], Aux Slp
Tons Gross 17; Tons Net 10; LOA 58-0; LWL 36-0; Extr. Beam 11-6; Depth 7-3; Draught 7-6
Sailmaker Ratsey-Larsen; Sails made in [19]35; Sail Area 1580
Builder Herreshoff Mfg. Co.; Designer N. G. Herreshoff; Built where Bristol, R.I.; Built when 1911
Engine Gas Eng. 4 Cyc. 8 Cyl. 1937; Maker Scripps
Note: Power inst. 1930. Rem. 1933. Re-inst. 1937.
Named Judy II, still owned by Herbert Dunhill and berthed in Port Washington as per Lloyd's Register of 1951.
1955 Lloyd's Register of American Yachts (#3607)
Name; Former Name(s): Joyant; Judy II, Joyant
Owner: Herbert G. Odza; Port: Port Washington, N.Y.
Official no. 208629; Building Material Wood; Type & Rig K[eel], TC [Trunk Cabin], Aux Slp
Tons Gross 17; Tons Net 10; LOA 58-0; LWL 36-0; Extr. Beam 11-6; Depth 7-3; Draught 7-6
Sailmaker Ratsey-Larsen; Sails made in [19]35; Sail Area 1580
Builder Herreshoff Mfg. Co.; Designer N. G. Herreshoff; Built where Bristol, R.I.; Built when 1911
Engine Gas Eng. 4 Cyc. 8 Cyl. 1942. Inst. 1953. 90 HP; Maker Scripps
Note: Power inst. 1930. Rem. 1933. Re-inst. 1937.
Still owned by Herbert G. Odza and homeported in Port Washington in 1957 as per 1957 Lloyd's Register. Last listed in 1960 Lloyd's. Owned briefly in 1957 by Tom Wadlow of Mystic, CT. Later sold to Al Krech under whose ownership she sank at her mooring in South Portland, Me, in the late 1960s or in 1975, depending on the source of information.
2007 WoodenBoat Register
Name: Joyant
Owner: Robert G. McNeil; Port: Islesboro, ME ; Port of Registry: Menlo Park, CA
Type & Rig P-class, Keel sloop
Tons Gross 16; LOA 58-0; LWL 36-0; Extr. Beam 11-6; Draught 7-3
Builder Herreshoff Mfg. Co.; Designer N.G. Herreshoff; Built where Bristol RI; Built when 1911
Note: St. Francis YC; Sail No. 57
2010 USCG
Name: Joyant
Owner: Zephyrus IV Partners LLC (3511 Silverside Road, Ste 105 Wilmington, DE 19810); Port: Portland Or
Official no. 208629; Building Material Wood
Tons Gross 16; Tons Net 16; Reg. Length 58; Extr. Beam 11; Depth 7
Built when 1911
Note: Documentation Issuance Date: August 12, 2010. Documentation Expiration Date: September 30, 2011. Service: Recreational.
2015 USCG
Name: Joyant
Owner: Zephyrus IV Partners LLC (3511 Silverside Road, Ste 105 Wilmington, DE 19810); Port: Portland Or
Official no. 208629; Building Material Wood
Tons Gross 16; Tons Net 16; Reg. Length 58; Extr. Beam 11; Depth 7
Built when 1911
Note: Documentation Issuance Date: September 3, 2014. Documentation Expiration Date: September 30, 2015. Service: Recreational.
Source: Various Yacht Lists and Registers. For complete biographical information see the Herreshoff Catalogue Raisonné under Data Sources. Note that this section shows only snapshots in time and should not be considered a provenance, although it can help creating one.
Supplement
From the 1920 and earlier HMCo Index Cards at the MIT Museum
- Note: The vessel index cards comprise two sets of a total of some 3200 cards about vessels built by HMCo, with dimensions and information regarding drawings, later or former vessel names, and owners. They were compiled from HMCo's early days until 1920 and added to in later decades, apparently by Hart Nautical curator William A. Baker and his successors. While HMCo seems to have used only one set of index cards, all sorted by name and, where no name was available, by number, later users at MIT apparently divided them into two sets of cards, one sorted by vessel name, the other by vessel number and greatly expanded the number of cards. Original HMCo cards are usually lined and almost always punched with a hole at bottom center while later cards usually have no hole, are unlined, and often carry substantially less information. All cards are held by the Francis Russell Hart Nautical Collections of the MIT Museum in Cambridge, Mass.
From the 1931 HMCo-published Owner's List
Name: Joyant
Type: J & M
Length: 35'
Owner: Childs, W. H.
Source: Herreshoff Manufacturing Company. "A Partial List of Herreshoff Clients." In: Herreshoff Manufacturing Company. Herreshoff Yachts. Bristol, Rhode Island, ca. 1931.
From the 1930s L. Francis Herreshoff Index Cards at the Herreshoff Marine Museum
- Note: The L. Francis Herreshoff index cards comprise a set of some 1200 cards about vessels built by HMCo, with dimensions and / or ownership information. Apparently compiled in the early 1930s, for later HMCo-built boats like the Fishers Island 23s or the Northeast Harbor 30s are not included. Added to in later decades, apparently by L. F. Herreshoff as well as his long-time secretary Muriel Vaughn and others. Also 46 cards of L. F. Herreshoff-designed vessels. The original set of index cards is held by the Herreshoff Marine Museum and permission to display is gratefully acknowledged.
From the 1953 HMCo Owner's List by L. Francis Herreshoff
Name: Joyant
Type: 36' sloop
Owner: Wm. H. Childs
Year: 1911
Row No.: 326
Source: Herreshoff, L. Francis. "Partial List of Herreshoff-Built Boats." In: Herreshoff, L. Francis. Capt. Nat Herreshoff. The Wizard of Bristol. New York, 1953, p. 325-343.
From the 2000 (ca.) Transcription of the HMCo Construction Record by Vermilya/Bray
Month: Jan
Day: 31
Year: 1911
E/P/S: S
No.: 0709
Name: Joyant
LW: 35'
B: 11' 3"
D: 7' 4"
Rig: J & M
K: y
Ballast: Lead O.
Amount: 8800.00
Notes Constr. Record: P. Class.
Last Name: Childs
First Name: W. H.
Source: Vermilya, Peter and Maynard Bray. "Transcription of the HMCo. Construction Record." Unpublished database, ca. 2000.
Note: The transcription of the HMCo Construction Record by Peter Vermilya and Maynard Bray was performed independently (and earlier) than that by Claas van der Linde. A comparison of the two transcriptions can be particularly useful in those many cases where the handwriting in the Construction Record is difficult to decipher.
Research Note(s)
"Universal Rule Class P (31-foot rating)." (Source: van der Linde, Claas. March 7, 2009.)
"Joyant was not designed to carry a topmast or topsail." (Source: van der Linde, Claas. January 25, 2011.)
"Dimensions from pencilled note on construction plan 1-52." (Source: van der Linde, Claas. April 24, 2014.)
"Today's Joyant is much different from the Joyant of former days. Under sail, her silhouette has changed noticeably, for she now carries a new-to-her 200 sq ft jackyard topsail. To support it her mast, at 68ft, is now thirty percent longer than the original. And while her hull shape was faithfully restored and is still double-planked, it is now sheathed in fiberglass. Her two layers of planking are not shellaced but epoxied together, and she has a teak deck rather than one of white pine (which in vertical grain has become difficult to obtain today). She originally displaced 34,688lbs of which about 20,200lbs were lead ballast resulting in a ballast ratio of 58%. After her restoration her owner reported her displacement as 35,000lbs and her ballast as 25,000lbs which would result in a ballast ratio of 71% (but note that her owner reported a ballast ratio of 65% which might either imply a lighter ballast or a heavier hull)." (Source: van der Linde, Claas. November 25, 2014.)
"Built in 105 days (contract to launch; equivalent to $84/day, 321 lbs displacement/day)." (Source: van der Linde, Claas. January 16, 2024.)
"Sail area 1549 sqft from untitled two-page rating-rule-related table handwritten (in ink) by N. G. Herreshoff with multiple dimensions for the most important Herreshoff-designed yachts. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum. MRDE15, Folder [no #]. Undated (the most recent boat dates 1914/1915 and the table was probably prepared in preparation for NGH's sail area rating rule of 1914/1915)." (Source: van der Linde, Claas. September 16, 2020.)
"Sail area main 1137sqft plus jib 389sqft = 1526sqft total as per notes on sail plan 130-116." (Source: van der Linde, Claas. April 24, 2014.)
"Displacement 527 cu.ft. [= 21,152 lbs] from untitled two-page rating-rule-related table handwritten (in ink) by N. G. Herreshoff with multiple dimensions for the most important Herreshoff-designed yachts. Halsey C. Herreshoff Collection at the Herreshoff Marine Museum. MRDE15, Folder [no #]. Undated (the most recent boat dates 1914/1915 and the table was probably prepared in preparation for NGH's sail area rating rule of 1914/1915)." (Source: van der Linde, Claas. September 16, 2020.)
"Designed displacement 527 cuft [= 33.728 lbs]. Disp. on 36.45' w.l. = 551.6 cuft [35.302 lbs]. Disp. on 36.86' w.l. = 558.7 cuft [35,757 lbs]. ... 7-18-[19]30 Disp[lacement] 620.6 [cu.ft. = 39,718 lbs on] W.L. 38.20." (Source: Herreshoff, N.G.? Penciled Notes on Joyant Construction Plan 1-52 (HH.5.00473). Haffenreffer-Herreshoff Collection, MIT Museum, Cambridge, MA..)
Note: Research notes contain information about a vessel that is often random and unedited but has been deemed useful for future research.
Note
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